This guest post is written by Jai Anand, a 2nd year student at Jindal Global Law School, Sonepat. All views are personal.
Let’s start this with a question. Have you ever bought a BlackBerry phone with an operator’s logo on it? A simple answer would had been no. But if you have bought one from our own e-commerce guys here in India, you might have seen an AT&T or Verizon logo printed on it. Why, let’s try and figure out.
There have been several complaints from customers who purchased Blackberry phones online. Common issues reported are:
- Phones received are co-branded with US mobile networks (like AT&T, Verizon)
- Phones are sometimes locked.
- These phones do not come with Blackberry India warranty of 18 months; rather they arrive possessing a “vendor warranty” of 6 months.
- When customers visit and complain at regular Blackberry service centers, they are not entertained on most occasions as their IMEI (International Mobile Equipment Identity) numbers are not available in the systems of Reddington India, who runs the service centres of Blackberry India.
Why do consumers buy such phones?
No rocket science needed to understand this consumer behaviour. In a price sensitive country like India, consumers buy such phones because prices are often stashed upto 15-20% than the price of Blackberry India phones.
These heavy discounts lure the customers and many times, they buy such phones without knowing the terms and conditions of the purchase. They just click ‘buy now’ and end up buying without even knowing that the handset is imported and does not carry any Blackberry warranty.
The troubles then begin. Some of them may be:
- The phone hangs;
- The phone battery does not last;
- The phone screen might develop a fault and many more.
Since the phone does not come with a Blackberry warranty, consumers have nowhere to go but to the vendor who on many occasions is not available for comment.
Being a law student myself I wrote emails to various e-commerce companies to figure out why they don’t mention the warranty clause etc. Replies though were anything but satisfactory.
Someone I know purchased a Blackberry Torch from Dealsandyou (a leading e-commerce company) after reading the terms and conditions. After purchasing he found that the phone was imported with operator’s logo on the phone. He complained about this and to his surprise he was sent another set of terms and condition which mentioned that the phones are imported. The two different T&Cs have been are given below:
Fine print received initially.
Fine Print on Blackberry product page
Fine print after issue was escalated
Fine Print after escalation
Did you gather the difference between the two? The company actually changed the fine print.
Here’s the current blackberry listing at Dealsandyou website.
Dealsandyou Blackberry page
I then wrote an mail to Dealsandyou to inquire about whether they get it legally imported; if they do then do they provide documents of the same and whether these phones are legally unlocked?
The reply was shocking. It read and I quote ‘We would like to inform you that product that we send are the Brand new phones. You will receive an invoice along with your order. On the invoice you can find the name and the address of the vendor.
Dealsandyou Email 1 - Click to zoom
Dealsandyou Email 2 - Click to zoom
Anyway, not one to be discouraged so easily, I wrote back again but to my dismay received the same response.
Effect on Blackberry India
So how does the same affect the brand Blackberry? I was very inquisitive to know this and I asked Ankur, the founder at Akosha, how to best understand this. He offered to write to the Blackberry PR team. He asked:
a) Does Blackberry India know AT&T/Verizon locked phones are being sold by e-commerce companies?
b) Does Blackberry India approve of this practice? If not, why is it tolerating the same?
c) If it approves of this, then why it isn’t providing customers’ service through regular service centers?’
His email is reproduced here in full.
Email 1 to Blackberry - Click to zoom
The response that came was quite disappointing. The Blackberry team said: “Customers have an option to purchase their favorite BlackBerry smartphone and choose an operator and tariff plan of their choice in over 80 cities and thousands of authorized retail outlet across India. We encourage our customers to purchase BlackBerry smartphones and accessories from authorized retail channels to ensure true BlackBerry product and services experience.”
Here is a screenshot of their email:
Email from Blackberry - Click to zoom
After this mail, Ankur sent the following follow-up email:
Email 2 to Blackberry - Click to zoom
No reply came. The line went silent from Blackberry India’s end.
Important issues:
I have no issues even if the phone is imported but if a site claims it to be legally imported, a customer must be provided with the custom clearance and tax paid documents. Since these are not provided by any company/vendor, I am not so sure about the authenticity of the product.
Unlocking is another big issue and e-commerce companies should mention whether the phones are legally unlocked by the operator or are they third party unlocked phones.
For the information of the reader, no operator (including AT&T) allows unlocking of the phones through them before completing three months of active service. Thus, it now becomes impossible for these phones to be unlocked by the company as these are new phones (as mentioned by the e-commerce company). Hence the only case is that this is third party unlocking. Or the phones are used phones and being sold as new.
Why is this important?
In the end the ultimate loser is the consumer, who, for the sake of saving some money falls into the dirt and ends up buying something below par. These practices also hurt e-commerce reputation since a lot of people are paying for goods online for the first time.
The need of the day though is more transparency so that hard-earned money of the consumer does not end up being in dump. Blackberry India also needs to take a few steps because as more and more people buy cheap stuff, it is their reputation which will take a beating.
I write this in the spirit of a law student who is also a budding entrepreneur. I feel that as more Indians start buying online, we need to ensure that they don’t get burned by such experiences and never come back to shop online.
This guest post is written by Jai Anand, a 2nd year student at Jindal Global Law School, Sonepat. All views are personal.
Dude, what are you getting your panties in a bunch for? Why should they provide you with the Tax documents? Do you get the excise and customs paid documents with the Blackberry that you buy from the authorized store?
They are providing you with the bill (a TIN paid one at that). You can not just go around making bills for stuff that’s illegal. You should get a look at basic Financing before you go around spewing bullshit like this.
These are imported phones that might not work with a few operators in India as they only activate BB services on the handsets that were bought from their own channel. That’s what brands do to curb the problem with the parallel imports.
About dealer’s warranty. Yes, you get dealer’s warranty where you will get your phone repaired or replaced by dealer and not manufacturer unless you have a product that sports international warranty. When you are up for buying the gadgets online, you are expected to know the difference between the dealer’s and manufacturer’s warranty.
For god’s sake, keep the blogosphere away from this sensationalizing bullshit. Let it remain to the good old India TV and likes.
Arihant, your answer goes as follows
For first point, answer lies in your question because they are not authorized. If you ask any seller to show their tax paid invoice in case of any issues, they’ll show it. Here even after we asking them again and again, they did not give us any response. These phones cannot be legally imported as then the diff. in prices won’t exist, moreover they are breaking the contract with AT&T/Verizon which itself is illegal. Hope, it clears your query.
For your second point. First of all, a genuine bill is the one which has TIN No. mentioned along with the product description that includes IMEI which they don’t mention which clearly indicates tax evasion. For your information, they give you a retail invoice and not a tax invoice.
For your third and fourth point, For your information Dealer’s warranty phones are deemed to be illegal because if Blackberry is allowing import of such phones without any issues, then they would not hesitate to provide warranty in India considering the fact that they have service centres in almost all major cities around the country. Adding to that, do you know what warranty is? Please check here http://info.akosha.com/consumer-complaints/consumer-protection/guarantee-vs-warranty-the-difference/
Now considering your situation that dealer’s warranty are legal and they can provide that, well, I agree, but then warranty means the seller is responsible for every default that occurs in phone within the span of 6months with some clauses which means, they should change the parts with original blackberry accessories which they don’t in any case which again tends to show that they are selling it illegally.
Arihant, the language that you have used on the blog which generates consumer awareness is not appropriate and we very much welcome your criticism
Really a good research and must needed article for Indian consumers. I have shared the article with my Blackberry group also. Thanks Akosha
1. “If you ask any seller to show their tax paid invoice in case of any issues, they’ll show it.”
Are you sure about it? I see it mentioned that you are a law student and I’m really disappointed to see you say this. You can not just go right ahead and force them for their purchase bill because they are not bound to show you any, if you want to see the purchase bill, the only way is to complain to the ITD and they will be the ones to investigate further and verify all the documents. It is all the same with the dealers selling these phones on DealsandYou. They need to be registered importers with an import license to be importing phones at such a bulk rate.
2. “These phones cannot be legally imported as then the diff. in prices won’t exist, moreover they are breaking the contract with AT&T/Verizon which itself is illegal.”
You really don’t know how the system works, do you? A phone becomes contractual only after a citizen of US (in this case) registers the phone on a network with the SSN and all the formalities. That person is then supposed to pay a hiked monthly tariff in order to get the phone on a very low (read subsidized) price. The phones with the logo are usually the phones that the manufacturer releases in the open market in the case of over production or discontinuation of a certain device. They are not stolen from AT&T / Verizon stores.. LOL!
3. “First of all, a genuine bill is the one which has TIN No. mentioned along with the product description that includes IMEI which they don’t mention which clearly indicates tax evasion. For your information, they give you a retail invoice and not a tax invoice.”
I purchased a phone from DnY and it came with a retail invoice . The invoice had the TIN number and the IMEI sticker on it which is enough to bar dealer from tax-evasion and is a valid proof for you, the ITD and the government so don’t just make up facts by yourself.
Also, I would like you to add the scanned copy of the bill, that you claim to have got, that did not have the TIN number because honestly, I don’t believe you on this. All the products that I received from DnY are provided with this proper bill and that includes the mobile phone that I got.
4. “For your information Dealer’s warranty phones are deemed to be illegal because if Blackberry is allowing import of such phones without any issues, then they would not hesitate to provide warranty in India considering the fact that they have service centres in almost all major cities around the country.”
What does it have to do with Blackberry India? Blackberry does not have a say on what products should be imported and what products should not. That’s a company and not the government. Of course they are on a loss here with products selling for like 30% less prices and the only thing that they can do about showing their resistance is not honoring the warranty for the phones that are imported.
If you are just being sympathetic to Blackberry and it’s nothing more than an emotional outburst or a fanboi whine, then it’s a different story altogether.
5. “they should change the parts with original blackberry accessories which they don’t”
Assumption. Like I said, in the interest of “appropriateness for a blog that generates consumer awareness”, don’t just make assumptions without any proof to support it. I once had a fault come up in my Verizon BB 8900 which was under dealer’s warranty and the dealer gave me a brand new replacement phone of a later model, the BB 9800.
Start from the basics, young Padawan. Start from the basics.
Good luck.
Mr.Arihant,
Nice attempt to defend DNY but unfortunately totally vague!
Wow, these networks will release phones in open market in huge quantity just because they are in excess, did you make sense? Are you a sane person?
If they have it in excess, they can easily remove the logo or sell at subsidized rate but still in case they wont have logo for open market for world.
Did you talk about unlocking?? No arguments whether its jailbroken or not?
Illegality is everywhere dude and you are talking about my sanity, get a life dude!
Now, taking into account the assumption that all the Bills which have TIN No. mentioned are original bills is out of the way. only VAT Paid retail invoices are considered to be true.
I have dozens of consumer’s bill to show you that there is no IMEI No. mentioned, btw, if DNY can change the fine print, they can change the invoice too, can’t they?
There is a law called Competition Law in India, which protects unfair domination of market, and if all these imports are legal and then we have a difference to the tune of 30-35%, they are again in trouble.
You have nowhere mentioned about ‘Dealers Warranty’, are you trying to evade from the argument?
thats a really nice n genuine blog…Thanks Jai for sharing that….i also had to go through the exactly same problem,when i bought a blackberry handset, with one of the leading e-commerce company (naaptol).
N only after i approached Akosha ,my problem was solved.
Thanks Ayush!
Hi, we have linked to this article about Blackberrys brought via some ecommerce sites
http://www.techgoss.com/Story/4406S14-BB-Deals-and-you-.aspx
Thanks Bala.
many thanks Jai Anand & akosha…thats a fantastic article.
plz keep posting many eye-opening articles like this to protect inoccent consumers.
well done…hats off to you !
Thanks a lot Kumar, we’ll get more inside stories, keep sharing,:)
Looks like Arihant Jain works for DNY or getting paid by them.
An insight from an Insider :
I am someone who knows this business in an and out, let me be anonymous for the moment.
There are quite a few truths in what Jai has to say and many arguments which he makes are not sensible.
Let me start with the negatives before I go to the positive.
1) A vendor does not need to provide customs documents to customers. A retail customer has a right to a vat invoice and warranty if offered.
2) Many a times when products are EOL (end of life), many distributors (of AT&T, Verizon, etc.) who have excess non moving stocks do dump them in foreign markets at low prices so to at least recover a part of their investments. This is not illegal, it may best go against some contracts they may have signed with their parent company.
3) Unlocking phones is not illegal. I would request you to show me the law in India which states unlocking a phone or selling an unlocked phone in illegal.
4) Parallel imports are not illegal. Say any importer can import BB phones or Dell notebooks from other countries and sell in India. BB India or Dell India may not offer warranties on these is a different matter all together. Many manufacturers only offer warranty on a product in the country in which they sell. So importer of these imported BB phone or Dell notebook may choose to offer a dealer warranty on the same.
Jai, the conclusion you have arrived at is correct but the methodology is somewhat flawed.
Now let me give you the truth and the whole truth about this sordid mess.
Fact 1 :- Most of these phones imported are not NEW !
2 :- These are dumped phones (used for 6 months to 2 years) from the US, UK, etc. bought at scrap valued and imported into China / HK. These are than refurbished in small factories in China, using bodies made in non OEM factories in China. The internals, if damaged, are repaired and then clothed in duplicated bodies. And these are supplied with duplicate charges and batteries. And most often sold in duplicated BB boxes.
3 :- Than these are imported in India claimed as new since you can not import second hand electronics in India (this is the only illegal act the importer is committing). This is the reason why they are being sold at such phenomenal discounts. Refurbished as NEW
4 :- These phones which should be sold are refurbished but unscrupulous vendors and either conniving or ignorant ( I will give them benefit of doubt and go along with ignorant) sites like DNY sell as new.
Thus this is a fraud of immense proportion.
Now this is not to say that all these phones are refurbished. There are quite a few genuine business who are importing the overstock (as mentioned earlier – negative 2) material into India. Infact these phones are also now being activated by CDMA service providers, who would go to show these being a genuine and legal activity.
Now what can be done about this, the customers who have been defrauded should take up this matter collectively with consumer court. They can even file a complaint with cyber crime cell.
In my opinion who would I call the more guilty party? the vendor or the aggregator?
The aggregator (DNY, etc). Greed is doing them in. In the mad rush to offer deep discounts to customers they are bending the rules. They have the resources to check the quality of merchandise they are offering to its customers. A cursory look at the product from and experienced person in the mobile industry is enough to make out that these are refurbished phones.
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for your excellent and informative response. We are sure that our readers will be extremely benefited by your insights.
We agree with you on all counts but we wish to clarify that the intent of the article was to point out all that is wrong with the prevailing system rather than contemplating on legality of every aspect. It is a well known fact that absence of stringent laws in the country is one of the primary reason behind any and every mess like this and by highlighting the drawbacks in the system, we not only intend to spread awareness amongst the consumers but also flag them as the points that need to be considered for improved in the overall regulatory regime. The bottomline is if a practice is not illegal, it simply doesn’t justify it as being right.
Regards,
The Akosha Team
Hi Team,
Thanks for the Kind Comments. The laws which I mention are same in most countries, it is not a deficiency in law in India. In fact some of the laws governing internet commerce are more strict in India than elsewhere.
Parallel imports are legal, unlocking is legal is most countries. In fact some importers won a case against Dell and were allowed to import Dell notebooks.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-04-09/news/31313110_1_dell-india-importers-dell-spokesperson
The companies mentioned in this report are big names in Mumbai IT market.
Infact Jai being a law student should have appraised himself of the law a little more before posting on a public forum. He could have taken some help from his law professors. Anways I salute Jay for taking up this issue in which thousands of customers have been defrauded. This business brings a bad name to the entire ecommerce industry
Now I will give a tip for the customers to know if their phone is indeed new or refurbished.
If your phone came with an operator logo like AT&T or Verizon, it must be in an AT&T or Verizon printed box. If it comes in carrier box packing it is new.
It would look something like this – http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/541/8830box.jpg/
But if your phone came in generic BlackBerry packing, it is Refurbished.
Importing refurbished phones is illegal. Selling refurbished as new is also illegal.
There are enough laws in this country to bring these crooks to book.
Dear Sir,
Thank you so much for the tip and all the additional information. As we mentioned earlier, this going to help our consumers to a great extent.
The Akosha Team
Thanks Rajesh,
I am not debating on parallel imports here but If you carefully read my comment, I wrote that they are not allowed in SOME DOMAINS since Indian courts have applied both the principles of National and International exhaustion. Delhi HC has taken ironical stands on this, though not in electronics’ domain.
I never said unlocking is illegal, I advice you to read carefully.
I agree on the facts, thanks for sharing
Good Luck
Jai Anand
Dear Rajesh,
I’m glad that you showed interest to write a long and insightful comment.
First point, a vendor should not necessarily provide, but that does not mean he should not provide at all. If that becomes a case, you can never know if the product has been custom cleared.
Second point, I did not mention such a practice to be illegal and I agree with you on this.
Third point, My point was they say:new phones and officially unlocked, which is not possible, new phones cannot be legally unlocked, only a use phone can be OFFICIALLY unlocked. The fact is that they sell ‘jail-broken’ phones but mention ‘officially unlocked’
Fourth point, Though parallel imports are allowed(not in every domain, Indian courts flip-flop on this) The problem is they don’t pay ‘Custom Duty’.
I accept all the facts, this was my point, they dont give a true description, many thanks for sharing these facts.
I would say, deal sites are at fault, despite knowing they are refurbished through hundred of complaints they receive, they continue to practice it for two reasons: good margins and the most importantly. high value transactions(necessary for funding in ecommerce).
Many thanks for sharing your insights!
Cheers!!
i think jai anand i just trying to gain mileage for a better mileage
another ANAAA!!
and soon d&y will ask him to shut up and mr lawyer will as for his shut up price!
Hi, Thanks for such an informative piece. I myself have ordered a BB 9860 from Infibeam at a price which is about Rs 2000 less than the price being offered on Flipkart. The description with the product at the site page confirms Manufacturer warranty of 18 months. Should I believe this site?